~~Hey folks this is a really cool conversation, I am enjoying hearing your points of view! But I have to go to bed now, shit's late.
I will pick up on replying to more of these and continuing this sometime tomorrow after my lectures~~
Holy shit this has exploded, I never expected this to get as big as it has. I am slowly working my way through the different arguments.
It seems very evident that I failed to highlight the main point of my argument, as people are diving into semantics arguments focusing on specific side points to the overall message.
The basis of what I am arguing is better explained [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/5p1lo2/cmv_harry_potter_has_an_awful_magic_system_which/dcnscwx/?st=iy61scrc&sh=0f2eab35).
EDIT #3: Everyone and their grandmother is getting held up on the wandless magic point, referencing pottermore and the later books where that is established,
but that was just a symptom of the overall issue I have with the series which is better outlined in that comment and [this one](https://www.reddit.
com/r/changemyview/comments/5p1lo2/cmv_harry_potter_has_an_awful_magic_system_which/dcnt1fz/?st=iy62qdsp&sh=cd2cbe73) as well (Last half of that comment).
There may be arguments that convince me already on the post, but due to how complex these posts are its taking me some time to get through and evaluate them all.
Hey there, so to start things off, yes Harry Potter is a good story, I am a fan of the book series overall, but this issue is a major gripe for me.
Second, I have not read the books recently, this is a thought holdout that I've had for years.
I love stories that set out the rules for a magic system, and then navigate their plots through that system while keeping it consistent.
A couple examples of a consistent magic system are Eragon and The Kingkiller Chronicles.
On the macro scale both of these systems are very similar, the magic that happens is rooted in an energy balance.
In KC, you can light a cigarette by taking energy from your own body, or a nearby fire, etc. which will then cool as a result. And the further away something is, the higher the cost.
In Eragon, all actions require a similar energy, its a bit more ethereal than KC, but still has very defined limits.
Users can't do very much before they are exhausted, so they need to draw on sources of power such as other people, or stored potential energy that was previously harvested.
The point is that, these relationships are established early on in the book series, and while characters refine their abilities, and learn more about the magic system,
the base rules continue to apply.
In Harry Potter, the rules are laid out in some of the initial magic lessons, but as the series progress, almost everything that has been established gets thrown away.
Even worse, in many cases whole plot devices are reliant on just some new form of magic that the reader had no idea was a possibility.
- Exceptional spell pronunciation and precise wand movement is explained to be essential for a spell to function at all,
but then later we end up losing the pronunciation and wand movement entirely. Magic can just happen wordlessly and without a wand.
- There's essentially no limit to a magic users abilities once you figure out a spell for the first time. You could cast Avada Kedavra all day long.
- Magic detection is entirely inconsistent.
They can use the "trace" to detect *any* magic from someone underage *anywhere*, but can't at all tell when someone in the middle of the Ministry of Magic in under a Polyjuice potion?
What is this huge magic detection network that allows the "trace" to work? How is it not being used for other things?
- Spells have a mind of their own, ala Accio and Crucio
- Incredibly overpowered items like the Time-turner effectively break the universe
I remember having other examples but it has been a while since I read the books.
(EDIT: Bolded this for emphasis, this is the thesis of my argument.)
to me, it feels like JK wrote herself in to corners fairly often and then had to default to "Because magic" as the solution.
It really irritated me when I read the series for the first time, and I have never been convinced otherwise by friends when Harry Potter gets brought up.**
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